Saturday, January 21, 2006

... Meeting the Atheist (Final Part)


So the atheist pulls out both of his arms and puts them up, one on top of the other. He leaves a gap in between his hands (for example like holding an imaginary box from both sides). He said, "Look this is God. This is Enlightenment. I have given you Brahm-Gyan." I said, "Isn't Rab (God) everywhere? Not just in between both your hands." He was hell-bent on saying "God is empty space, God didn't create the world, and God has no power. He TRIED to justify his peculiar views with this line from Gurbani:

ਲੋਗਾ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੂਲਹੁ ਭਾਈ
logaa bharam na bhoolahu bhaa-ee.
O people, O Siblings of Destiny, do not wander deluded by doubt.

ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਖਲਕ ਖਲਕ ਮਹਿ ਖਾਲਿਕੁ ਪੂਰਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਸ੍ਰਬ ਠਾਂਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ
khaalik khalak, khalak meh khaalik, poor rehi-o sarab thaa(n)-ee. 1 rahaa-o.
The Creation is in the Creator, and the Creator is in the Creation, totally pervading and permeating all places. 1Pause

He said that "Khaalik" means EMPTY VOID... so HIS translation of the shabad was "THE EMPTY SPACE IS THE CREATOR, AND THE CREATOR IS IN THE EMPTY SPACE" or something. Silly bloke! If only he read the full shabad, possibly the FIRST LINES of the shabad! Here's the shabad if you wish to read.

I said then "Who created everything, who creates, sustains, and destroys this creation?" He continuously replied, "KUDRAT." Kudrat has two meanings meaning "Coincidence" but it also means God in sense of "the Creator - Causes of Causes." I was thinking perhaps you need to hear your own voice saying "KUDRAT, KUDRAT, KUDRAT" and realise you are accepting and acknowledging God without knowing. Waheguru!

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. My mum and I had enough! He was annoying, imposing his cyncial atheistic views on me and furthermore he was trying to make himself out to be some sort of new-age Guru who does seminars in villages in Panjab and converting people in the masses (he claims) to realise through Gurbani that there is no God and instead the whole world is about "me" (the opposite to what Gurbani says! Gurbani tells us to lose our ego and become one withe Infinite Lord). I told the bloke, "Excuse, I agree to disagree. I don't wish to discuss further." He would be quiet and then start again. Twice I ended up saying "I AGREE TO DISAGREE. THAT'S IT."

It comes time for me to do Rehraas Sahib da Paath (evening prayer). I get out my Gutka Sahib from my bag and start doing Paath quietly. SAT NAAM. The atheist just STARED at me while I was reading Rehraas. I could sense the negativity and he didn't want me to read paath. He then started to laugh. Freaky? Yes! The man was like an embodiment or physical representation of KALJUG (Era of Darkness/Falsehood).

(The story is soon to finish! hehehe). Okay, now we arrive in Turkmenistan and we have to change our flight to go to Amritsar. At the airport the ATHEIST FOLLOWS US TO WHERE WE SIT inside the airport. He starts saying to me "Why take Amrit? What's big deal with Water and Sugar mixed in? So how do people take Amrit?" He was on purpose mocking. I gave minimal response knowing that he wanted to play mind games, as he thought he could persuade me not to take Amrit.

AT LAST. My mum and I were excited, AT LAST WE CAN MOVE SEATS AND SIT SOMEWHERE ELSE in the aeroplane. On getting on the new flight we quickly sat away from the dodgey hard-core atheist Narakdhari, thinking we can get some peace and quiet and go to Amritsar without the hassle of the negativity of this bloke. So we sat down. WAHEGURU, WAHEGURU, WAHEGURU! The air-hostess does an announcement, "Ladies and gentleman please take the SAME SEATS as you were sitting in the flight before. Please don't change seats." I felt saying "KABHEE NEHEE!" (No way!!!!).

So we ended up sitting back in the same seats. My mum and I quickly planned that we were going to ignore the bloke and NOT MAKE A CONVERSATION and if he says something just reply with shaking head or MINIMAL RESPONSE. So thats what we did. I knew why. However, he was UNSUCCESSFUL in shaking my faith in the ALMIGHTY WAHEGURU.

I wondered to myself is Guru jee testing my faith? Well, DEFINITELY the bloke was challenging my belief in Waheguru, Guru Sahib, Gurbani and Amrit. If anything the experience made me even stronger. However, remembering the face of the atheist is not a pleasant thought. His eyes were DARK and looked PITCH BLACK (there was no light showing from his eyes) and he looked like he had no soul inside him. More of a dead man walking!
ਬੋਲਹਿ ਕੂਰੁ ਸਾਕਤ ਮੁਖੁ ਕਾਰਾ ॥੪॥
boleh koor, saakat mukh kaaraa. 4
The faithless cynic barks out his lies, and his face is blackened. ||4||
(Ang 239, SGGS)

Chalo may Waheguru bless us all with wisdom. End of day everything is in Hukam (Will) of Waheguru. May Waheguru bless us all with undetermined pyaar (love) and stern faith in Him :)
ਮਾਗਉ ਦਾਨੁ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਨਿਧਿ ਮੇਰਾ ਮੁਖੁ ਸਾਕਤ ਸੰਗਿ ਜੁਟਸੀ ਰੇ
maa(n)gau daan kirpaal kirpaa niDh, meraa mukh saakat sang na juttsee re. ||
I beg this blessing of You, O Merciful Lord Waheguru, ocean of mercy - please, don't bring me face to face with the faithless cyincs.

ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਸ ਦਾਸ ਕੋ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਮੇਰਾ ਮੂੰਡੁ ਸਾਧ ਪਗਾ ਹੇਠਿ ਰੁਲਸੀ ਰੇ ॥੨॥੪॥੩੭॥
jan naanak daas daas ko karee-ahu, meraa moondd saaDh pagaa heth rulsee re. ||2437||
Make servant Nanak the slave of Your slave; let his head roll in the dust under the feet of the Holy. 2437
(Ang 535, SGGS)


Anonymous said...


I'm sure many have had experiences with other fanatically religious people and athiests, you argue your points with the amount of knowledge one has about their religion or philosophy and our own you can try to debate your point, but usually at the end of the day you can only say "moorkhay naal na lujhiye"...

Manvir Singh Khalsa said...

totally agree.

one should try to avoid arguments. people who try to instigate arguments don't wish to "debate," "learn," or "understand." Arguing usually means try to outsmart the other people and no-one is willing to move from their viewpoint.

Singhstah said...

You cant help but pity the guy, lol

Pravinder said...

I also feel that it was a test from waheguru ji. I think we all face these tests in our lives and don't realise at the time... Some times we fail them but we can just pray to waheguru ji to please help us to become strong minded sikhs and not to stray from his path. We realise the importance of sangat when we are away from their positive vibes and are challenged by negatives... I'm glad that you didnt hinder and tried your best to explain to these person about waheguru, however we are taught as sikhs that waheguru is in everyone so we should not slander that person, even though he doesn't realise waheguru resides inside him, or going by his theory maybe its just an empty space in his heart! :P WAHEGURU!!!!!!!!! Please forgive me for the foolish things i may have said, Waheguru Ji please bless us all, Manvir Singh Ji plz continue to teach us how to practice Sikhi in our everyday lives through your blog!!! Love your gursikhs!!! :D

Manvir Singh Khalsa said...

Bhai Sahib Pravinder Singh thanks for your comment.

>>>"...plz continue to teach us how to practice Sikhi in our everyday lives through your blog!!!<<<

Gurmukho! I learning myself:
giaan dhiaan kichh karam na jaaNa, saar na jaaNa teri. (ang 750)
Translation:- "I know nothing about wisdom, meditation and good deeds; I know nothing about Your excellence."

The only thing I know and which I try to share with the readers is:
sabh te vaddaa satgur naanak, jin kal raakhee meree. (ang 750)
Translation:- "Guru Nanak is the greatest of all; He saved my honor in this Dark Age of Kaljug (through showing me the path to Waheguru)."

bhul chuk maaf.

tudh aagai ardaas hamaaree, jeeo pindd sabh teraa. kaho naanak sabh TERI vaddiaaee, koyee naao na jaaNai mera.
"I offer my prayer to You; my body and soul are all Yours. O Nanak! All greateness belongs to YOU; no one even knows my name."

Confused Khalsa said...

moorkhey naal na lujhia ;)

Confused Khalsa said...

dhaevugundhhaaree mehulaa 5 ||
Dayv-Gandhaaree, Fifth Mehl:

ouluttee rae mun ouluttee rae ||
Turn away, O my mind, turn away.

saakuth sio kar ouluttee rae ||
Turn away from the faithless cynic.

jhoothai kee rae jhooth pureeth shhuttukee rae mun shhuttukee rae saakuth sung n shhuttukee rae ||1|| rehaao ||
False is the love of the false one; break the ties, O my mind, and your ties shall be broken. Break your ties with the faithless cynic. ||1||Pause||

jio kaajur bhar mundhur raakhiou jo paisai kaalookhee rae ||
One who enters a house filled with soot is blackened.

dhooruhu hee thae bhaag gaeiou hai jis gur mil shhuttukee thrikuttee rae ||1||
Run far away from such people! One who meets the Guru escapes from the bondage of the three dispositions. ||1||

maago dhaan kirupaal kirupaa nidhh maeraa mukh saakuth sung n juttusee rae ||
I beg this blessing of You, O Merciful Lord, ocean of mercy - please, don't bring me face to face with the faithless cyincs.

jun naanuk dhaas dhaas ko kureeahu maeraa moondd saadhh pugaa haeth rulusee rae ||2||4||37||
Make servant Nanak the slave of Your slave; let his head roll in the dust under the feet of the Holy. ||2||4||37||

..... bhaji if you have any electronic copy of the sikhsoc leaflet mentioned in the above post, or any other sikhsoc literature please forward to me! many thanks.

Teji Kaur said...

Guru Fateh
You did a good thing trying to avoid the cynic.I have a simalar situation and I just want to mention that the atheist is misrable.Those who dont have God are misrable and cant ever find true hapiness.Wanna know my belief.I dont think the atheist really does not belive in God.I cant see how anyone could doubt his existance.To me he is obviously there.I know for a fact.I think ppl get angry at God and maybe doubt him from the outside but it is beyond me I think it is not possible for a person to fully inside therir heart think God does not exist.The atheist will have to suffer his actions.One day he will have to turn to God.Do Path for him and he may change.Sometimes we can change them.That is what happened with me.The atheist I knew wud not leave me alone.I always always talk about God and thankfully made her believe.Maybe God wanted some of your Goodness to rub off.Usually they see a believer in Hapiness and get inspired.Either way the best case scenerio is to stay far away as u can.If you have no choice(like I didnt)try to show them there is more to life than Maya.
Guru Rakha sada
Guru Rakha sada

Manvir Singh Khalsa said...

Confused Khalsa bhaji... please email me which literature you want. I am unsure what Sikh Soc literature you are referring to.

Ps. Love the shabad you posted.

Teji Kaur bhenji... thanks for sharing your experience. Reminds me of the lines from Rehraas Sahib "Tudh Aap VichhoRiaa, Aap Milaaeiaa... You Yourself separate us from You, You Yourself unite us with Yourself."

Dhan Guru Nanak!

Anonymous said...

So you sat near a Punjabi Ambedkarite Buddhist then? There are plenty of them in Wolverhampton / B'ham. The names Ashok and paul are quite common. They are ex-Sikhs of so-called low caste (eg Ravidassias) who had left Sikhism due to incidents of caste discrimination in Punjab villages. There are thousands of them in the UK. They are very critical of Sikh society as they feel that Sikhs havent lived up to the principles of their faith and as a result they converted to Buddhism en-masse. These people need love and a compassionate hearing; they also need to see or experience practical examples of Sikhism in action so they can begin to understand it. As a community we need to make more of an effort with other Punjabi communities.