Saturday, August 04, 2007

Children doing Simran

Here are some videos from the France Gurmat Camp that took place in July.

This is the 10-12 years old class. At the beginning and end of class we would do Simran. It would help to calm the children and keep them focused:




Video from evening diwaan:



In the evening diwaan, after Rehraas Sahib, Uncle Gurdial Singh jee would lead Simran. After doing Simran, Uncle jee would ask the children (in Panjabi): "Why do we do Simran?" and "Is doing Simran important?" The children were Chardi Kalaa! They would reply with great enthusiasm. Every day Uncle jee would say put your hand up if you do Simran in the morning. Day by day the numbers of hands went up and even parents. Children enjoyed the Simran.

Dhan Hai Guru, Dhan Hai Teri Sikhi.

28 comments:

Prabhu Singh said...

After watching that first video, I don't know if that's what we should be teaching children as "Simran."
It sounds more like screaming to me. Simran is something you acheive, not something you do. What is "Simran karna?" How can you "do" rememberence?
I know when I was a kid, screaming was fun sometimes, but it never felt like meditation. I appreciate the efforts of those organizing these youth camps, but it seems like indoctrination into a strange sub-culture that considers this kind of "simran" as meditation.
I definitely do not see how this could make the children calmer or appreciate a true, deep, silent rememberence of WaheGuru.
So that I don't just criticize, here is what I would do:
If I wanted the children to be calm and meditative. The first thing I would do is disallow any junk food from the camp. Then I would teach a simple pranayam, like breathing in through the left nostril and out through the right (long and deep breath). Then we could chant WaheGuru in a soft and melodious manner. I can guaruntee this would calm children and give them an experience of meditation.

guroo guroo kar man mor said...

singh!! these kids r doin "simran". simran = remembering god!!!! i never knew that u have to breathe in left nostril and out right to remember God!!

the important thing is to REMEMBER! whisper, shout, sing, read, or breathe..... everyone has their own way of remembering & every place has their own preferred way!! kids are energetic and luv to sing in loud voice or "shout" vaheguroo... wots wrong wid that???


jap guroo guroo

Anonymous said...

couldnt agree more with 'guroo guroo kar man mor'. I thought it was amazing to watch. Every child had their eyes closed and were putting in the effort. Not many kids can hold their attention to one thing for that long. I think the video is very inspiring. Thanks bhaji.

Anonymous said...

Hmm I c the point ur trying to make plus shouting waheguru out in a group would that not make the children more hyper than calm? The second vid is more peaceful and relaxing for the children I imagine.

mandeep

Hum Nahi Changae, Bura Nahi Koi.... said...

Well, it is Simran, Remembering naturally, no show off. Consider the feeling with which the kids are doing it rather than stressing on the technique. All the kids seem pretty serious while doing the Simran and none were doing any kind of mischief. Simran done without YOGA is as good as done using Yoga. Use what ever works for you and at the same time have respect for what works for others. Simar and let others Simar the way they feel comfortable. Kids will automatically improvise through their life and will do Simran the way that clicks for them. Important issue is to get them in a habit of doing Simran. At first you have to start "doing Simran" for the Simran to start coming from with in you.

Anonymous said...

The first thing I would do is disallow any junk food from the camp. Then I would teach a simple pranayam, like breathing in through the left nostril and out through the right (long and deep breath). Then we could chant WaheGuru in a soft and melodious manner.
........................
Prabhu singh,
Just because others have different views than yours, doesn't mean they are wrong and you have to be right.
yoga has nothing to do with Sikhi...yet some have made it apart of their life(I can provide you quotes from SGGSJ if you want).....
If you want others to respect you, LEARN to respect what others ...or atleast be tolerant

Anonymous said...

Did Guru Ram Das Ji not obtain the highest seat of yoga or something like that? I have heard in Siri Singh Sahib's lectures. Yoga is not against Sikhi either.

mandeep

Anonymous said...

Did Guru Ram Das Ji not obtain the highest seat of yoga or something like that? I have heard in Siri Singh Sahib's lectures. Yoga is not against Sikhi either.

mandeep

...........................
I have heard that too...
nothing quite impressive about yogi bhajans lestures.....most of his talks have NOTHING to do with Gurbane.
if so, wat yogi bhajan has claimed about Guru Ram dass sahib maharaj is true...
then provide some quotes from Gurbane....
till then...
yoga has NOTHING to do with Sikhi.

why gurbane is so important?

Mai Gurbanee Aadhar Hai,Gurbane Laag Rahao.(ang 759)
I have support of the word of the Guru's Bani.Being Attached to Gurbani , I survive.


end of the day ..we have to ask ourselves....
who is our Guru?
If you say Aad Guru Granth Sahib Mahraj is your guru...
then you should also know what Guru Sahib say about YOGA and YOGIS...
Yoga has NO IMPORTANCE IN SIKHI.
what is important then?

Prab Ka Simran Sabh Tey Uochaa.
Simran of the Lord is the highest of ALL.(ang 263-Sukhmani Sahib)

Yoga may not be againts Sikhi as you believe, but it has no IMPORTANCE in Sikhi either.End of the day it is your choice...but don't make claims which you can't prove and say they are part of Sikhi.


Veer Manvir Singh jeo, this kookar is sorry for the outburst.I just get annoyed when someone claims something which is Manmat and says it is Gurmat.
Sorry again.

Anonymous said...

dear bhaji, I work in a nursery and young children do get excited when singing and shout rather than singing.

Anonymous said...

http://www.mrsikhnet.com/index.php/2006/08/09/youth-questions-and-answers/ Go down the question Is Yoga used to concentrate during Simran? If yes…what about those who don’t know how to do yoga? and listen to Siri Singh Sahib's view.

Prabhu Singh said...

If you actually read Gurbani, you'll see that the Guru describes who a true yogi is. Also you'll see an important shabad that says:
"Raj Jog Takht Dee-an Guru Ram Das" (meaning Guru Ram Das sits on the eternal throne of Raj Yoga).
Also if you actually listen to the Siri Singh Sahib's lectures you'll see that he refers to Gurbani over and over again.

Many many Sikhs are familiar with basic pranayams (breathing techniques). Unfortunately I've come across a group of Sikhs who do a very harmful and dangerous breath technique that does not come from the ancient yogic tradition. Please everybody do your research and don't accept the word of one individual or group. Some breathing techniques can be dangerous. Those that come from the ancient yogic traditions have been known, practiced, and perfected for thousands of years.
I'm not intolerant of other people's practices, I just watched the video and the children and observed that it was more an exercise in screaming than a meditation.
They are doing Japna of WaheGuru, what they are remembering only they know. We can say that they are 'doing' Japna, we can't say they are 'doing' Simran, only they know that.
My observations are that they are headbanging, unable to sit still, screaming, and have expressions of anguish on their face, or expressions of confusion. I gave an example of a very basic breath technique which will surely calm the children and perhaps allow them to sit still and Jap WaheGuru in a way that will bring peace.
I'm giving examples from traditional practices, this practice of screaming WaheGuru or mispronouncing it as some people do when they start chanting really fast, is modern and has no precedence in the Sikh Maryada. I know it's popular these days, but it's not traditional and most people that do this do not leave their 'group' to see the practices of other Sikhs.

Panthic Khalsa said...

yoga is brahminvaad. its ok as exercise but u should concentrate on swaas swaas simran instead of pretending to snort coke.

singh said...

Prabhu Singh I am quite shocked at your comments. Previously I have admired your level headed thoughts and humility.

You need to research Sikhism. Simran means to remember. Who are you to judge these kids are say they are not remembering God. If someone does the Yogic "Simran" exercise that you say, one could argue that how do you know that they remembering God while they breathe? Come on! Perhaps if we all spend less time ruining good posts and fuelling a never ending argument, why don't we all do SIMRAN.

Apologese to Manvir Singh for all the negative and conflict causing comments. Perhaps we should all go and sit with children and do Simran in Sangat rather than argue amongst ourselves.

God bless.

Anonymous said...

Prabhu is not being offensive in anyway in my view I understand the point he is making. This does not have to be an argument why can it not be a disscussion, we can all learn from each others experiences. In my view yoga or exercises are done to increase your concentration nothing anti-sikhi about that?

mandeep (scotland)

Prabhu Singh said...

Please do not use the name 'Panthic Khalsa,' to spread your ignorance. Yoga means union, which is the whole purpose of Sikh Dharma. Sikh Dharma is a form of yoga, you just don't understand what yoga is. Look into your 'group' if you want to learn more about cocaine. What I'm suggesting is ancient wisdom, but throwing pearls to swines was not my intention.
My belief is that simran, is not just 'rememberance,' but it actually means "constant rememberance." That is why I don't believe you can 'do' simran and it is something you have to achieve. You can't "do" constant rememberance, it's something that happens internally. How I interpret this is just semantics, but certainly "doing Simran" is a modern expression and has no place in Sikh history.
I did not suggest breating techniques while chanting WaheGuru. I would have suggested a different technique. I gave a technique that can be done at any time to relax. I meant that the children could use this technique before chanting WaheGuru. But don't blow their brains by screaming afterwards, do something meditative.

Anonymous said...

Veer Manvir Singh Jeo, sorry again.But, dass hopes you allow this post.Its long but it should stop the manmat views of some.
Dhanvaad veer jeo.

If you actually read Gurbani, you'll see that the Guru describes who a true yogi is. Also you'll see an important shabad that says:
"Raj Jog Takht Dee-an Guru Ram Das" (meaning Guru Ram Das sits on the eternal throne of Raj Yoga).

……………………………………………………………………………

"Raj Jog Takht Dee-an Guru Ram Das"
(Meaning Guru Ram Das sits on the eternal throne of Raj Yoga).
The above quote and meaning of gurbane by Prabhu Singh is INACCURATE.

A few things to take note of:
1. Prabu you misquote the Gurbane line.Its not GURU but GUR.
2. Your translation in inaccurate. The word DEE-AN means BLESSED.

Below is the actual line from Gurbane and its translation:
Raaj Jog Takhat Dee-an Gur Raamdass
Guru Raam Dass is blessed with the The Throne of Raaj Jog-temporal mastery and Union with God.
(ang 1399)
Yoga is the western version of this word; this word is actually pronounced as “Joga” in Hindustan. The word Joga is derived from the word “JOG”, which literally means *****UNION****.
Union with who?
Vahiguroooo

The word Jog in this line doesn’t mean Yoga, it mean UNION.The pangtee clearly says that Guru Ram Dass jee is given the Throne to bless mankind with Union with Vahiguroo.

The word JOG(union) has been used in Gurbane over and over again.Read these lines from gurbanee.

The yoga of a yogi is its physical postures and breathing techniques.That is their daily practice.

The Yoga of a Gursikhs is different according to Guru Sahib:
guramukh jog sabadh aatham cheenai hiradhai eaek muraaree ||17||
This is the Yoga of the Gurmukh: Through the Shabad, he understands his own soul, and he enshrines within his heart the One Lord. ||17||
manooaa asathhir sabadhae raathaa eaehaa karanee saaree ||18||
**Imbued with the Shabad**, his mind becomes steady and stable; this is the most excellent action. ||18||
(Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 907)

WHAT KIND OF YOGA IS GURU SAHIB TELLING US TO DO??????
aisaa jog kamaavahu jogee ||
Practice such Yoga, O Yogi
jap thap sa(n)jam guramukh bhogee ||1|| rehaao ||
As Gurmukh, ***enjoy meditation***, austerities and **self-discipline**. ||1||Pause||
(Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 970)


****Note: the word JOG in pangtee below means UNION.
pooraa sukh pooraa sa(n)thokh ||
Perfect is the peace; perfect is the contentment.
pooraa thap pooran raaj jog ||2||
Perfect is the penance; perfect is the Raja Yoga(Guru Sahib-King of union), the Yoga of meditation of Naam and success. ||2||
(Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 188)


You really believe that the yoga you do can help you hereafter?
This is what Guru Sahib says:

saadhh milai sidhh paaeeai k eaehu jog k bhog ||
Meeting with the Holy Guru, the perfection of the Siddhas is obtained. What good is Yoga or indulgence in pleasures?
dhuhu mil kaaraj oopajai raam naam sa(n)jog ||2||
When the two meet together, the business is conducted, and the link with the Lord's Name is established. ||2||
(Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 335)

People say Yoga is very healthy for you and has many other advantages.
But this is what Guru Sahib says in Gurbane:


sabh jogathan raam naam hai jis kaa pi(n)dd paraanaa ||
All Yoga is in the **Name of the Lord**; the body and the breath of life belong to Him
kahu kabeer jae kirapaa dhhaarai dhaee sachaa neesaanaa ||4||7||
Says Kabeer, if God grants His Grace, He bestows the insignia of Truth. ||4||7||
(Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 477)

***Note:the word JOG means UNION in the line below.

pa(n)ch chaelae vas keejehi raaval eihu man keejai dda(n)ddaathaa ||1||
Let the five passions be disciples under your control, O begging Yogi, and make this mind your walking stick. ||1||
jog jugath eiv paavasithaa ||
Thus you shall find the Way of Yoga(union).
eaek sabadh dhoojaa hor naasath ka(n)dh mool man laavasithaa ||1|| rehaao ||
There is only the One Word of the Shabad; everything else shall pass away. Let this be the fruits and roots of your mind's diet. ||1||Pause||
(Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 155)



What is the TRUE YOGA/True way of UNION with the Lord?

kar bhaekh n paaeeai har breham jog har paaeeai sathasa(n)gathee oupadhaes guroo gur sa(n)th janaa khol khol kapaatt ||1||
Yoga - Union with the Lord God - is not obtained by wearing religious robes; the Lord is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and the Guru's Teachings. The humble Saints throw the doors wide open. ||1||
(Guru Raam Daas Ji in Raag Kaanraa on Pannaa 1297)


……………………………………………………………………………
Prabhu Singh said:

Many many Sikhs are familiar with basic pranayams (breathing techniques). Unfortunately I've come across a group of Sikhs who do a very harmful and dangerous breath technique that does not come from the ancient yogic tradition. Please everybody do your research and don't accept the word of one individual or group. Some breathing techniques can be dangerous. Those that come from the ancient yogic traditions have been known, practiced, and perfected for thousands of years.
……………………………………………………………………….
One should not get in to the breathing techniques of Yoga, as this is not Gurmat. Any breathe without they name of the Lord is a breath wasted in evil thoughts. One should meditate Athai Pehar (24/7) with every breath in order to be liberated in this life.
Guru Sahib says:

So Samrath Simar Saas Giras(ang 197)
So remember the ALL-Capable Lord with EACH BREATH and morsel of food.

Saas Saas Simro Gobing (ang 295)
With each and ever breath, meditate in the remembrance on the Lord of the Universe.

……………………………………………………………………
Prabhu Singh said:

I'm not intolerant of other people's practices, I just watched the video and the children and observed that it was more an exercise in screaming than a meditation.
They are doing Japna of WaheGuru, what they are remembering only they know. We can say that they are 'doing' Japna, we can't say they are 'doing' Simran, only they know that.
My observations are that they are headbanging, unable to sit still, screaming, and have expressions of anguish on their face, or expressions of confusion. I gave an example of a very basic breath technique which will surely calm the children and perhaps allow them to sit still andJap
WaheGuru in a way that will bring peace.
I'm giving examples from traditional practices, this practice of screaming WaheGuru or mispronouncing it as some people do when they start chanting really fast, is modern and has no precedence in the Sikh Maryada. I know it's popular these days, but it's not traditional and most people that do this do not leave their 'group' to see the practices of other Sikhs.

…………………………………………………………………


We all know the story of BHagat Fareed jee, on how he was encouraged to do bhagtee when he was a kid.His mother BRIBED him with sweets, to encourage him to Remember Allah.Bhagat Fareed did NAAM JAPNA out of greed, at first.
Yet , God blessed him.Until this is what Fareed jee says in Gurbane:

fareedhaa sakar kha(n)dd nivaath gurr maakhio maa(n)jhaa dhudhh ||
Fareed: sugar cane, candy, sugar, molasses, honey and buffalo's milk
sabhae vasathoo mit(h)eeaaa(n) rab n pujan thudhh ||27||
all these things are sweet, but they are not equal to You O Lord!. ||27||
(Bhagat Sheikh Fareed Ji in Salok Fareed Jee on Pannaa 1379)

you say these children are shouting?……Bhagat Fareed jee only did Simran out of greed for sweets….look where he ended up!

Ganika was a prostitute, she one day meet a sadhu(hermit) and did His sewa.Before leaving the the sadhu gave her a parrot, and told her to teach the parrot to say RAAM RAAM.
It was not easy to teach a parrot to say Raam Raam, she repeated Raam Raam endlessly.
This is what Gurbane says about her:

sooaa parraavath ganikaa tharee ||
Teaching a parrot to speak the Lord's Name, Ganika the prostitute was saved
(Bhagat Naam Dev Ji in Raag Gond on Pannaa 874)


ganikaa oudhharee har kehai thoth ||
Ganika the prostitute was saved, when her parrot uttered the Lord's Name
(Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Basant on Pannaa 1192)

jih simarath ganakaa see oudhharee thaa ko jas our dhhaaro ||1|| rehaao ||
Meditating on Him in remembrance, Ganika the prostitute was saved; enshrine His Praises within your heart. ||1||Pause||
(Guru Tegh Bahaadur Ji in Raag Sorath on Pannaa 632)

Was Ganika doing some breathing technique when she tought the parrot to say Raam Raam?????
Was Ganika doing some Yoga posture while teaching the parrot to say Raam Raam???
Did Ganika even planing to do simran to meet the ONE Formless Lord???
Her Plan was only to teach the parrot to do simran, yet, look where did she ended up!!

Bhagat Naam Dev, Guru Arjan Dev jee, Guru Tegh Bahadur jee PRAISE Ganika for doing simran …..

Whoever was touched by NAAM, they were saved!

Who are you to say and judge the simran these kids in the video and other “Groups” are doing???


Nindaks.....they don’t even spare young children from their criticism nowdays…KALYUG!

Anonymous said...

Veer Manvir Singh Jeo, sorry again.But, dass hopes you allow this post.Its long but it should stop the manmat views of some.
Dhanvaad veer jeo.

If you actually read Gurbani, you'll see that the Guru describes who a true yogi is. Also you'll see an important shabad that says:
"Raj Jog Takht Dee-an Guru Ram Das" (meaning Guru Ram Das sits on the eternal throne of Raj Yoga).

……………………………………………………………………………

"Raj Jog Takht Dee-an Guru Ram Das"
(Meaning Guru Ram Das sits on the eternal throne of Raj Yoga).
The above quote and meaning of gurbane by Prabhu Singh is INACCURATE.

A few things to take note of:
1. Prabu you misquote the Gurbane line.Its not GURU but GUR.
2. Your translation in inaccurate. The word DEE-AN means BLESSED.

Below is the actual line from Gurbane and its translation:
Raaj Jog Takhat Dee-an Gur Raamdass
Guru Raam Dass is blessed with the The Throne of Raaj Jog-temporal mastery and Union with God.
(ang 1399)
Yoga is the western version of this word; this word is actually pronounced as “Joga” in Hindustan. The word Joga is derived from the word “JOG”, which literally means *****UNION****.
Union with who?
Vahiguroooo

The word Jog in this line doesn’t mean Yoga, it mean UNION.The pangtee clearly says that Guru Ram Dass jee is given the Throne to bless mankind with Union with Vahiguroo.

The word JOG(union) has been used in Gurbane over and over again.Read these lines from gurbanee.

The yoga of a yogi is its physical postures and breathing techniques.That is their daily practice.

The Yoga of a Gursikhs is different according to Guru Sahib:
guramukh jog sabadh aatham cheenai hiradhai eaek muraaree ||17||
This is the Yoga of the Gurmukh: Through the Shabad, he understands his own soul, and he enshrines within his heart the One Lord. ||17||
manooaa asathhir sabadhae raathaa eaehaa karanee saaree ||18||
**Imbued with the Shabad**, his mind becomes steady and stable; this is the most excellent action. ||18||
(Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 907)

WHAT KIND OF YOGA IS GURU SAHIB TELLING US TO DO??????
aisaa jog kamaavahu jogee ||
Practice such Yoga, O Yogi
jap thap sa(n)jam guramukh bhogee ||1|| rehaao ||
As Gurmukh, ***enjoy meditation***, austerities and **self-discipline**. ||1||Pause||
(Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Pannaa 970)


****Note: the word JOG in pangtee below means UNION.
pooraa sukh pooraa sa(n)thokh ||
Perfect is the peace; perfect is the contentment.
pooraa thap pooran raaj jog ||2||
Perfect is the penance; perfect is the Raja Yoga(Guru Sahib-King of union), the Yoga of meditation of Naam and success. ||2||
(Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 188)


You really believe that the yoga you do can help you hereafter?
This is what Guru Sahib says:

saadhh milai sidhh paaeeai k eaehu jog k bhog ||
Meeting with the Holy Guru, the perfection of the Siddhas is obtained. What good is Yoga or indulgence in pleasures?
dhuhu mil kaaraj oopajai raam naam sa(n)jog ||2||
When the two meet together, the business is conducted, and the link with the Lord's Name is established. ||2||
(Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 335)

People say Yoga is very healthy for you and has many other advantages.
But this is what Guru Sahib says in Gurbane:


sabh jogathan raam naam hai jis kaa pi(n)dd paraanaa ||
All Yoga is in the **Name of the Lord**; the body and the breath of life belong to Him
kahu kabeer jae kirapaa dhhaarai dhaee sachaa neesaanaa ||4||7||
Says Kabeer, if God grants His Grace, He bestows the insignia of Truth. ||4||7||
(Bhagat Kabeer Ji in Raag Aasaa on Pannaa 477)

***Note:the word JOG means UNION in the line below.

pa(n)ch chaelae vas keejehi raaval eihu man keejai dda(n)ddaathaa ||1||
Let the five passions be disciples under your control, O begging Yogi, and make this mind your walking stick. ||1||
jog jugath eiv paavasithaa ||
Thus you shall find the Way of Yoga(union).
eaek sabadh dhoojaa hor naasath ka(n)dh mool man laavasithaa ||1|| rehaao ||
There is only the One Word of the Shabad; everything else shall pass away. Let this be the fruits and roots of your mind's diet. ||1||Pause||
(Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Gauree on Pannaa 155)



What is the TRUE YOGA/True way of UNION with the Lord?

kar bhaekh n paaeeai har breham jog har paaeeai sathasa(n)gathee oupadhaes guroo gur sa(n)th janaa khol khol kapaatt ||1||
Yoga - Union with the Lord God - is not obtained by wearing religious robes; the Lord is found in the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, and the Guru's Teachings. The humble Saints throw the doors wide open. ||1||
(Guru Raam Daas Ji in Raag Kaanraa on Pannaa 1297)


……………………………………………………………………………
Prabhu Singh said:

Many many Sikhs are familiar with basic pranayams (breathing techniques). Unfortunately I've come across a group of Sikhs who do a very harmful and dangerous breath technique that does not come from the ancient yogic tradition. Please everybody do your research and don't accept the word of one individual or group. Some breathing techniques can be dangerous. Those that come from the ancient yogic traditions have been known, practiced, and perfected for thousands of years.
……………………………………………………………………….
One should not get in to the breathing techniques of Yoga, as this is not Gurmat. Any breathe without they name of the Lord is a breath wasted in evil thoughts. One should meditate Athai Pehar (24/7) with every breath in order to be liberated in this life.
Guru Sahib says:

So Samrath Simar Saas Giras(ang 197)
So remember the ALL-Capable Lord with EACH BREATH and morsel of food.

Saas Saas Simro Gobing (ang 295)
With each and ever breath, meditate in the remembrance on the Lord of the Universe.

……………………………………………………………………
Prabhu Singh said:

I'm not intolerant of other people's practices, I just watched the video and the children and observed that it was more an exercise in screaming than a meditation.
They are doing Japna of WaheGuru, what they are remembering only they know. We can say that they are 'doing' Japna, we can't say they are 'doing' Simran, only they know that.
My observations are that they are headbanging, unable to sit still, screaming, and have expressions of anguish on their face, or expressions of confusion. I gave an example of a very basic breath technique which will surely calm the children and perhaps allow them to sit still andJap
WaheGuru in a way that will bring peace.
I'm giving examples from traditional practices, this practice of screaming WaheGuru or mispronouncing it as some people do when they start chanting really fast, is modern and has no precedence in the Sikh Maryada. I know it's popular these days, but it's not traditional and most people that do this do not leave their 'group' to see the practices of other Sikhs.

…………………………………………………………………


We all know the story of BHagat Fareed jee, on how he was encouraged to do bhagtee when he was a kid.His mother BRIBED him with sweets, to encourage him to Remember Allah.Bhagat Fareed did NAAM JAPNA out of greed, at first.
Yet , God blessed him.Until this is what Fareed jee says in Gurbane:

fareedhaa sakar kha(n)dd nivaath gurr maakhio maa(n)jhaa dhudhh ||
Fareed: sugar cane, candy, sugar, molasses, honey and buffalo's milk
sabhae vasathoo mit(h)eeaaa(n) rab n pujan thudhh ||27||
all these things are sweet, but they are not equal to You O Lord!. ||27||
(Bhagat Sheikh Fareed Ji in Salok Fareed Jee on Pannaa 1379)

you say these children are shouting?……Bhagat Fareed jee only did Simran out of greed for sweets….look where he ended up!

Ganika was a prostitute, she one day meet a sadhu(hermit) and did His sewa.Before leaving the the sadhu gave her a parrot, and told her to teach the parrot to say RAAM RAAM.
It was not easy to teach a parrot to say Raam Raam, she repeated Raam Raam endlessly.
This is what Gurbane says about her:

sooaa parraavath ganikaa tharee ||
Teaching a parrot to speak the Lord's Name, Ganika the prostitute was saved
(Bhagat Naam Dev Ji in Raag Gond on Pannaa 874)


ganikaa oudhharee har kehai thoth ||
Ganika the prostitute was saved, when her parrot uttered the Lord's Name
(Guru Arjan Dev Ji in Raag Basant on Pannaa 1192)

jih simarath ganakaa see oudhharee thaa ko jas our dhhaaro ||1|| rehaao ||
Meditating on Him in remembrance, Ganika the prostitute was saved; enshrine His Praises within your heart. ||1||Pause||
(Guru Tegh Bahaadur Ji in Raag Sorath on Pannaa 632)

Was Ganika doing some breathing technique when she tought the parrot to say Raam Raam?????
Was Ganika doing some Yoga posture while teaching the parrot to say Raam Raam???
Did Ganika even planing to do simran to meet the ONE Formless Lord???
Her Plan was only to teach the parrot to do simran, yet, look where did she ended up!!

Bhagat Naam Dev, Guru Arjan Dev jee, Guru Tegh Bahadur jee PRAISE Ganika for doing simran …..

Whoever was touched by NAAM, they were saved!

Who are you to say and judge the simran these kids in the video and other “Groups” are doing???

Nindaks don’t even spare young children from their criticism nowdays….KALYUG!

Kiran said...

Wjkk Wjkf Manvir Bhaji!
I've a question: What did all of the children say when Gurdial Uncle ask them: "What will you be if do not do simran?"
I wish you all the best for your webside

WJKK WJKF

Anonymous said...

veer manvir singh jeo....just to some more points...
.................................
part 2:
after reading all gurbane lines above, we can come a ONE CONCLUSION:

Guru Sahib states clearly in Gurbaanee that the true Yoga is the Yoga of Athai Pehar Naam Abhiyaas. Guru Sahib explains clearly in these Shabads peace, contentment, raj yoga, honor, glory will only come through Naam, Guru Sahib also explains everything we do in life will be perfect if it is blessed by Guru Sahibs Naam Abhiyaas through every breath.



So prabhu singh...tell me...
what pranayam or yoga did Bhagat Fareed jee practised?
He only repeated Allah Continuously motivated by greed of sweets......yet he became a bhagat!


what pranayam did the sadhu teach Mata Ganika jee?
The sadhu did not even tell her to do SIMRAN,he just told her to teach the parrot to say Raam Raam....
You say, "the kids are JUST DOING 'JAPNA' but are NOT DOING SIMRAN".....
Ganika was not even doing Simran!
Ganika did even doing Japna!
she was just teaching the parrot!!
At first, her purpose was only to teach the parrot....when **SHE** repeated RAAM RAAM continuously...she felt ANAND!
She then understood what was SIMRAN....
According to the Katha(story)...she spent day and night in Simran....after the parrot learned to say RAAM RAAM.
She was so imbued in simran by then....that she even forgot that sha was prostitute...and what she did for living.....
SHE BECAME A BHAGAT!!!!!

sit and ponder for a while...
WHERE DID FAREED JEE AND GANIKA STARTED THEIR SIMRAN?
They were touched by the BLISS(amrit russ) of NAAM that they got liberated...

Anonymous said...

mandeep scotland,
nothing quite impressive about the link you gave....
Yogi just says it can be an ADVANTAGE to increase our SURTi/DHYAN(concentration) level.....
He also mentions the shabad by Guru Gobind Singh:
Man Eh Bidh JOG Kamavo...
O mind! earn this art of Union...

which you guys *manipulate* to suite your Ideology of yoga.

Manvir Singh Khalsa said...

Waheguru.

The intention of the post was not to cause any arguments and negative energy. May Waheguru bless us all.

During the classes at the camp there would be different styles of doing Simran. Sometimes the children would want to do Waheguru simran on the Vaaja, sometimes they closed there eyes and said WaheGuru slowly - quietly and loud. Other times we would all sit down and concentrate on breathing in and out, listening to what is in and around them and just relaxing for 5 or 10 minutes before the class started or at the end of the class. All depending on the mood and atmosphere at the time and the wishes of the children.

The children enjoyed Simran (as they said this) and sometimes sat longer than they had to because they enjoyed it. Only Waheguru knows who is not remembering God and who is remembering God when sitting down and saying "Waheguru". It's not our place to judge and nor should have reason to question someone's internal feeling. The individual knows and God knows. Waheguru. If an individual believes there's one way doing Simran that they benefit from and obtain inner joy then God bless them.

Guru Raakhaa.

Prabhu Singh said...

The anonymous person should leave their name and where they gained all their 'knowledge.' You wrote many quotes from Gurbani, which do exactly as I stated, which is describe a true yogi. YOGA MEANS UNION. I'm not talking about something different here.
I don't know what kind of Pranayam Fareed practiced, but I'm sure it wasn't the dangerous technique I see people doing these days. There are descriptions of pranayams inside the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Don't get it twisted.
You think you're so right, but your whole post comes from your one sided view, or the views of your consolidated, standardized, narrow 'jetha.' I'm speaking from experience, as a Sikh I feel it my duty to question everything and reach my own conclusions. God is within us, God is us, and the Guru is our guide to understand that.
You telling me I'm wrong is no different than me saying you know nothing. I would venture to guess that you regard 98% or more of your breaths as "evil." Sorry, but that's not my cup of tea. Each breath where I don't remember God, may be wasted, but it's an opportunity to learn. The mind follows the breath, if you knew anything about pranayam, or the methods contained inside the Siri Guru Granth Sahib, you wouldn't be wasting so many breaths.
Sorry Manvir Singh Khalsa Ji, for starting a debate here. My original comment came from my intial reaction to watching the video. I definitely think there is room for people to worship God in anyway they want. The people attacking me and my suggestion, have never gone outside their narrow ways. Those who have never experienced different types of yoga or yogic techniques such as (real) pranayam, should not talk like authorities on the matter.

Anonymous said...

....... and where they gained all their 'knowledge.'

...................
all the GURMAT knowledge has been provided by Sree Guru Granth Sahib jee...
,....................

You think you're so right, but your whole post comes from your one sided view, or the views of your consolidated, standardized, narrow 'jetha.'
....................
I can be wrong, but Gurbane can NEVER be wrong.
There is only one Jatha..that is Khalsa Panth.
And the things you mantioned above have NOTHING to do with GURMAT...

Anonymous said...

There are descriptions of pranayams inside the Siri Guru Granth Sahib. Don't get it twisted.
.................
Enlighten us.
I am sure everyone is MORE curious about your PRANAYAM THEORY now.

Otherwise your last post was basically supporting your MANMAT views.

Prabhu Singh said...

So you are the authority on Gurmat and Manmat? You can't even give your name. Look for the word 'nostril' in the Siri Guru Granth Sahib and you'll see more than one technique described.
I'm sure that your "knowledge" did not come entirely from the Siri Guru Granth Sahib, otherwise you would have a much better understanding, and what I wrote would make at least a little bit of sense to you.
There's no real point in arguing. "Sikhs" are doing all sorts of weird things these days and are ignorant of a million other things. Being a Sikh isn't a limiting experience, a Sikh is a learner and the vast wisdom within everything can be understood and practiced by Sikhs.
Your sentiments and method of thinking in general are the same as other narrow minded fanatics. Like the Christians who come to me and say Jesus is the only way, they insult my religion and know nothing about it. You're telling me about yoga, when you don't even have an iota of understanding as to what it is and certainly don't understand it's relevance to Sikh Dharma. You even went through the trouble of taking quotes from the Siri Guru Granth Sahib about yoga and you still don't understand. So what is the point in discussing Gurmat or Manmat, when your mind tells you that your limited understanding is Gurmat and the rest is Manmat?
Sorry again to Manvir Singh. My original point got lost. I wasn't insulting the children, I was just wondering why they are being taught this method, when there are other more traditional methods. It's true that kids like to yell and scream sometimes and they are probably closer to us to their divine source. Perhaps the best would be to give them a well rounded approach to meditation, including techniques for relaxation.

Naam Vairaag said...

Bhai Manvir Singh jeo, nimrita sehit benti please do stop the discussion here.

Guroo Pyario don't we have any sharam that these days we keep arguing about Simran one of the basic pillars of the Sikh faith

We do no simran but yet become experts on criticizing Gursikhs who have been taught by Panj. If someone has shanka in there mind they should go pesh to Panj and they will be blessed with Naam.

Again I request u to not allow anymore comments.

naam japahu maerae saajan sainaa ||

Naam Vairaag

Anonymous said...

There are descriptions of pranayams inside the Siri Guru Granth Sahib.
.......................
First of All dass will say I am sorry for offending anyone who was offended by my replies.

But as you can see, from the quote above a very SERIOUS claim was made...and was said to be GURMAT.
Yet the individual who claimed it...has not provided any evidence from Gurbani.
If someone chooses their own path, it is their BASIC HUMAN right, but to preach something which is againts Guru Sahib's Sikhiya(Gurmat) and guiding OTHERS on their VERSION saying this is SIKHI this is unacceptable.

You know why dass questioned him?

Because I knew he could prove nothing from gurbane.Guru Sahib doesn't even encourage such activities like yoga.
Dass only provided 7 quotes from Gurbani with Guru Sahib's Keerpa.
But when dass did a search, dass found atleast 40+++ quotes from gurbani, where Guru Sahib says the same thing OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

Dass is not againts Prabhu, dass is againts Prabhu guiding others to his VERSION of believes which is not according to Guru Sahib(Gurbani).

With the request done by Naam Vairaag respecting the owner of the blog, this the last message by daas.

AGAIN, dass is sorry for offending anyone who was offended.But Ponder on the "facts" dass has presented.

Prabhu said...

One more comment Manvir Singh Ji. This time from the mouth of Guru Nanak, describing exactly what I was talking about:
Ang 991:

ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
मारू महला १ ॥
Mārū mehlā 1.
Maaroo, First Mehl:

ਸੂਰ ਸਰੁ ਸੋਸਿ ਲੈ ਸੋਮ ਸਰੁ ਪੋਖਿ ਲੈ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਮਰਤੁ ਸੁ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ਕੀਜੈ ॥
सूर सरु सोसि लै सोम सरु पोखि लै जुगति करि मरतु सु सनबंधु कीजै ॥
Sūr sar sos lai som sar pokẖ lai jugaṯ kar maraṯ so san­banḏẖ kījai.
Heat up the sun energy of the right nostril, and cool down the moon energy of the left nostril; practicing this breath-control, bring them into perfect balance.

ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੧॥
मीन की चपल सिउ जुगति मनु राखीऐ उडै नह हंसु नह कंधु छीजै ॥१॥
Mīn kī cẖapal si­o jugaṯ man rākẖī­ai udai nah hans nah kanḏẖ cẖẖījai. ||1||
In this way, the fickle fish of the mind will be held steady; the swan-soul shall not fly away, and the body-wall will not crumble. ||1||

ਮੂੜੇ ਕਾਇਚੇ ਭਰਮਿ ਭੁਲਾ ॥
मूड़े काइचे भरमि भुला ॥
Mūṛė kā­icẖė bẖaram bẖulā.
You fool, why are you deluded by doubt?

ਨਹ ਚੀਨਿਆ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
नह चीनिआ परमानंदु बैरागी ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Nah cẖīni­ā parmānanḏ bairāgī. ||1|| rahā­o.
You do not remember the detached Lord of supreme bliss. ||1||Pause||

ਅਜਰ ਗਹੁ ਜਾਰਿ ਲੈ ਅਮਰ ਗਹੁ ਮਾਰਿ ਲੈ ਭ੍ਰਾਤਿ ਤਜਿ ਛੋਡਿ ਤਉ ਅਪਿਉ ਪੀਜੈ ॥
अजर गहु जारि लै अमर गहु मारि लै भ्राति तजि छोडि तउ अपिउ पीजै ॥
Ajar gahu jār lai amar gahu mār lai bẖarāṯ ṯaj cẖẖod ṯa­o api­o pījai.
Seize and burn the unbearable; seize and kill the imperishable; leave behind your doubts, and then, you shall drink in the Nectar.

ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੨॥
मीन की चपल सिउ जुगति मनु राखीऐ उडै नह हंसु नह कंधु छीजै ॥२॥
Mīn kī cẖapal si­o jugaṯ man rākẖī­ai udai nah hans nah kanḏẖ cẖẖījai. ||2||
In this way, the fickle fish of the mind will be held steady; the swan-soul shall not fly away, and the body-wall shall not crumble. ||2||

ਭਣਤਿ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਜਨੋ ਰਵੈ ਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਮਨੋ ਮਨ ਪਵਨ ਸਿਉ ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਪੀਜੈ ॥
भणति नानकु जनो रवै जे हरि मनो मन पवन सिउ अम्रितु पीजै ॥
Bẖaṇaṯ Nānak jano ravai jė har mano man pavan si­o amriṯ pījai.
Nanak humbly prays, if the Lord's humble servant dwells upon Him, in his mind of minds, with his every breath, then he drinks in the Ambrosial Nectar.

ਮੀਨ ਕੀ ਚਪਲ ਸਿਉ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਮਨੁ ਰਾਖੀਐ ਉਡੈ ਨਹ ਹੰਸੁ ਨਹ ਕੰਧੁ ਛੀਜੈ ॥੩॥੯॥
मीन की चपल सिउ जुगति मनु राखीऐ उडै नह हंसु नह कंधु छीजै ॥३॥९॥
Mīn kī cẖapal si­o jugaṯ man rākẖī­ai udai nah hans nah kanḏẖ cẖẖījai. ||3||9||
In this way, the fickle fish of the mind will be held steady; the swan-soul shall not fly away, and the body-wall shall not crumble. ||3||9||